Transcript of the Video
Suzanne Dibble: Hello, hello, hope everyone can see and hear me. Always a little bit dubious about these Facebook Lives, and whether they're actually working or not. So I'll just talk to myself for a little bit until I can see that some of you are joining me. And indeed, hopefully, Karen, our re-engagement expert, who is I'm going to be interviewing. So, I know it takes a little while to come through. So, whilst that is happening I'm just going to check on my iPad that we are actually live.
Aha, there we go, I can see myself. Super. So we'll just wait for Karen to join. Now, this is a challenge, how do I see who's actually on here? Okay, I can see my live viewers. Let's see who there is. Where is Karen? Karen, I suspect you're on there, but my phone is only showing me the first three people who are on here live. So, how will I join you in...? Let me invite you, and see if that works. Karen, invite.
Karen, if you could pop off and then come on again, maybe it will show you ... It's showing the most recent people who join, so if you go off and come on, then maybe you'll show up on my phone and I can bring you in that way?
Okay, so, let's just wait for Karen to join. Welcome to all of you who are joining us, while we're just getting Karen on live here. Welcome, Marion, welcome Royston, welcome Lucy, welcome Vee, welcome Nicola, and 20 more of you that I can't actually see at the moment. Marika, Emma is saying hello. Actually, Karen, if you write me a little note, maybe I can bring you on that way. Hi Sarah, good to see you. Karen, there you are, let's see if I can.
Oh no Karen, it says can't bring Karen on camera at this time. How can that be? We thought it was going to be so simple. Okay, messages from any technical experts here who can tell me how on earth I can bring Karen on when I've got a little note saying can't bring Karen on camera? Why is that? Who's going to let me know? Okay, let's try again. No, it's not letting me.
Karen, maybe, because some people have got a little icon next to them that says ... So I don't know if there's some setting on your phone or something that you can change? Yeah, try on your phone. Yeah, that's a great idea, Karen, that's probably why it's not letting me join you. Try that.
And in the meantime, welcome everybody who's joined, we're just trying to get Karen on live. Oh, Lucy is saying you have to be on your phone. Brilliant. So, some of you pop up and I have a little box that says bring them onto the camera. So Amanda Clark, welcome, if I wanted to talk to you, then I could bring you on, and interview you, Amanda. Ah, Karen, you've figured it out, awesome. You want to be in my video. Right, so I'm going to ... And hopefully, now we will get a split screen, and I can introduce you to Karen.
It's thinking about it, it's saying adding. Adding is flashing away. Aha,
Karen Skidmore: I'm here.
Suzanne Dibble: You're there.
Karen Skidmore: I'm there, I'm just getting the tripod setup. Nothing like being prepared on the desktop.
Suzanne Dibble: Yes, we'll know that for next time, Karen.
Karen Skidmore: Right, I'm just going to switch off that, because that's in the background.
Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah.
Suzanne Dibble: This is a great lesson for anybody who's not yet done an interview over Facebook Live, of how not to do it, and how you need the other person to be on their phone, and how to get it all set up.
Karen Skidmore: There you go.
Suzanne Dibble: So, thanks for your patience while we get this setup. Hi Nicola, hi David. It's David Holland, Karen.
Karen Skidmore: Hi David.
Sorry, I'm busy untangling, because I had the wrong headphones. Because of course, you need the bloody iPhone headphones to put into the iPhone.
Suzanne Dibble: Hi Amanda.
Yeah, no, David's a proper GDPR expert these days. I think he knows more about it than I do, so it's good to have him on.
Karen Skidmore: No pressure there, David.
Suzanne Dibble: Whilst Karen gets settled in, I'm just going to ask you guys some questions. So feel free to tap away in the chat box, and I want to know because obviously, this is all about running a re-engagement campaign to your list so that you can then follow that up with asking them for GDPR compliant consent to process their personal data for direct marketing purposes.
So, how many of you are thinking that your current consent isn't compliant for GDPR purposes, and you are going to have to go to your list and ask for fresh consent? Let's just pop a yes or a no in the chat box, and let's see how many of you think that you need to get fresh consent.
I imagine it's the vast majority of you because that's why you're on here.
Karen Skidmore: I would imagine, yeah.
Suzanne Dibble: But yeah, so lots of yeses coming through. Hi Ben, hi Valerie, hi Hazel. Hello to everybody. Okay, probably a simpler question, does anyone think they don't need to get consent? All right, so let's get into it now that Karen's all set up.
Okay, welcome everybody, thank you for joining us live, we're going to have a great session here. And just to give you the legal backdrop, I'm hoping that those of you that are in my group, and I guess that's everyone that's on here, unless Karen, if you've invited people that aren't in the group, from your group? I don't know how ...
Karen Skidmore: The only people that can join, they have to be a member of the group, so I've been letting people know, but of course they have to join the group to join the live.
Suzanne Dibble: I see. So everybody on this live stream is in my group, so therefore hopefully you've already watched some of this stuff, and you know the basics about GDPR. And the context that we're working in is that with GDPR there is a higher level, a higher standard of consent for direct marketing than under the current data protection rules.
So, you have to have things like, for example, you have to have an affirmative action that's unambiguous, etcetera. And I'll read out the exact wording in a minute. But basically, tick boxes are a thing of the past, there has to be genuine choice and consent. You have to provide people with a lot of information about what you're going to be doing with that data at the point of collection. And there's generally a lot more to do in terms of getting the compliant consent under GDPR than there is under our existing legislation.
So, certainly, I believe that 99% of people will have to get fresh consent in order to be compliant with GDPR. Now, saying that just right up front I want to say there are no vast data protection police forces out that are going to be there on the 26th of May that has worked out that you haven't got exactly the right consent for one or two people on your email list. Or even all of your email list. That's just not going to happen.
But what might happen is that somebody ... What's happening is that because this is becoming more significant, because there's a lot of this in the news at the moment, not just for business owners, but for consumers as well, consumers are getting savvier about their rights. So, if you're not following GDPR, there's more risk that somebody is going to complain about what you're doing. That's more than likely the way that you're going to come to the attention of the authorities on this.
Now, if you can show that you're working towards compliance on GDPR and that you haven't just turned your back on it, chances are that the ICO will, as they say in their own words, work with the carrot rather than the stick. So, if you're working towards compliance and you haven't ticked that final box, chances are that all the ICO will do, if in the remote chance that they do investigate you, they will say, "Okay, well here's how you're not complying, here's what I recommend that you do to be compliant." Or they might say, "You need to be compliant within a certain amount of time," and they will actually check that you are.
So let's have a sense check on all of this, you know, we've seen the hypey headlines of fines of 20 million euros, but weigh up what your risk is, and if you are working towards compliance, if you're taking a few sensible steps, then your risk of being fined at all is very low. That said, you can't ignore it. I hope I'm getting that message through. There are few simple steps that you need to take, but please don't be having sleepless nights about the tiniest bit of non- compliance and you getting fined 20 million because that just isn't going to happen.
Okay, so, with consent. I'm sorry Karen, I've realized I've launched into it without really introducing you, but I'll come on to that in a minute.
Karen Skidmore: You go on ahead, you go ahead. Set the scene, set the scene. I'm with you.
Suzanne Dibble: So back to consent. So, consent should be given by a clear, affirmative act, establishing a freely given specific, informed, and unambiguous indication of the data subject's agreement to the processing of personal data relating to him or her. Okay, so that's our new standard of consent. And the standard of consent for sensitive data, which is things like, your religious believes, your political persuasion, your sexual orientation, health data. Things like that, that's sensitive data, there's an even higher level of consent for that, which is explicit consent.
And examples of ways that we can get explicit consent is for somebody to sign an actual form with their signature, with the right privacy notice. Or, to get a double opt-in if you're doing it online. There's no mandatory requirement to get a double opt-in, that is purely one way of evidencing consent, and it's an example that is recommended when you're dealing with sensitive data. But in summary, it means no more opt-outs, it means no more pre tick boxes, it means genuine choice and control, it means transparency about purposes of processing. And, wherever possible, and I think the key words there are wherever possible, giving separate or granular options to consent to different purposes and different types of processing.
So, ideally what you're looking at is tick boxes for newsletters, for further marketing, for transfers to third parties, etcetera. Okay, so that's just the backdrop as to why there is a higher level of consent now, and what that higher level is, and why your existing consents are likely to be deficient, and why you're probably, if you want to be a GDPR compliant, going to have to go out and get refreshed email consent from your list.
So, that's the backdrop, hence I'm absolutely delighted to have with us, a marketing expert, Karen Skidmore, who feels really passionate about GDPR. I've seen lots of your posts and comments about it, Karen, and as a marketer, you see it from both sides, don't you?
I think, like me, you can probably see the positive of this, but in terms of it's a great opportunity actually to look at your list, and to look at what you're doing with that list. And, like we're going to be talking about now, doing a re-engagement campaign. So, I'm sure you can see the positive in all of this?
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, I can, absolutely. I mean I must admit I have a very simple business, so I don't have too much around the sensitive data. So, I totally appreciated there is another side to GDPR, which is a completely different thing, of data security, and sensitive data, whereas what we're talking about here is actually it's the non-sensitive stuff, it's the basic marketing information. And for me, that is an amazing opportunity to re-engage.
I suddenly realize you're that side of my screen Suzanne, but my camera's that side. So I'm going to end up ... I should have actually.
Suzanne Dibble: Yes, I think I'm looking a bit cross-eyed as well.
Karen Skidmore: I'm going like this, but I'm not going to flip the camera over, because I think it might upset all the rotation. So if my eyes go like this, it's because I'm looking here and there.
So, for me, I just feel okay, on one hand, it can be a real headache for a lot of organizations, and particularly small business owners. I've seen the anxiety levels in your group bubble up from hearsay, and in fact, I did a little bit of a, it wasn't really a rant, but I got so fed up with some of the stuff I was seeing in another Facebook group, of people taking things that they hear from one person to another, and it's Chinese whispers, it's all that Trump might call Fake News, and it sends people into spirals. Where actually, GDPR, I really believe in it, and it's what we need to protect our data.
And I think it was you that said data is the most valuable commodity on the planet now.
Suzanne Dibble: It was me quoting the Economist.
Karen Skidmore: Was it? You quoting the Economist, yeah. But I mean it's there, and when we think of what happened to our data, it can be sold for all sorts of things, and very unscrupulous companies. Where most of us here, I'd like to think all of us here, are running morally and ethically based businesses, that we are actually coming at this from a point of view of well we do actually care about our databases details, and we're not going to be flogged off to the person who wants to buy a list from us, without actually getting consent from our list.
So, actually, it's a really good thing. And then from an engagement point of view, it actually forces us as business owners to really love our list, and really make sure that we've got engaged people on our database, on our email newsletter list, rather than chasing the numbers, which I see so many people doing.
Suzanne Dibble: And that's why I'm really pleased that you've come on here Karen because that's what you're brilliant at. I think you had training years back, didn't you, called something called the Diamonds in your List. It was something like that, wasn't it?
Karen Skidmore: Diamonds in the Backyard, yes.
Suzanne Dibble: Yes, and it was all about exactly what you say, it was about really nurturing the list, and listening to them, and giving them what they wanted, as opposed to just this, in my view, a not very intelligent marketing exercise of just trying to get the numbers, and a wider base, that most of them aren't interested in what you're saying. Far better in my mind to segment and give them what they actually want, than not to do that.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah. And I see so many people, and I think it comes a lot from the internet marketing world, of people wanting to put their business online, and get into digital marketing, and start to list build. And it's when people start to see their list as email addresses, not as human beings. And my argument always is we're not driving traffic to websites, we're sending people to look at what we're offering. We're not getting email addresses onto a list, we're building a community. And when we go too digital, it's about recognizing that each one of those email addresses is a human being, who might actually buy something from us.
And when we treat them like a list, you know, it's not surprising that people don't read your emails, don't click the links, click spam, report you. And that's what I think we can really benefit from GDPR, is bringing the love back into our community, and engagement with our lists, our people who want to hear from us.
Suzanne Dibble: I love that, bring the love back to your lists.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, yes, come on. It's like a campaign, bring the love back.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah, absolutely.
Good, okay. So, let's strip this right back. So I've heard some people say ... I mean gosh, we've both seen people in my group saying I'm thinking of closing my business down because GDPR is such a nightmare. But you know, there are probably people there that are also thinking I'm just going to stop email marketing because it's just too much of a headache to get my head around.
For me, email marketing is still an incredibly important piece of my marketing jigsaw. I have to say, I'm moving more to platforms like this, where I'm having a group community, but email is still super, super important to me. What's your view on that, Karen, for those people that are thinking of maybe not putting as much focus on the email marketing?
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, I'm totally with you. There's awful a lot, particularly when social media started to come about, and everyone started to get into Facebook and LinkedIn, and Instagram, and all the rest of them, there was loads of stuff that was articles around email marketing is dead. Why do we still have emails when people are messaging on Facebook, and we're using so many different platforms of communication?
But actually, there are some really interesting studies now, in fact, I'm going to forget the studies now, what was it ... I mean email, the number of email users, registered addresses, is twice as many as Facebook. So there are 2 billion Facebook users, but 3.7 billion email accounts that are active and being used.
And what was it? In 2016, there were reports that 28% more emails were sent than in 2015. So, it's not dying, there's certainly a lot more crap coming through on email, there's no doubt about that. When we think about what we're using email, even just five or six years ago, the amount of pure rubbish that comes through. And I think people see email as a cheap way of messaging people. It's like rubbish, and so they just tend to put a whole load of rubbish out.
Where actually, when we start to see that as an individual, and you think of how many times we communicate personally, and we get an email from friends and family, well often it's that first email we open and read. So, the stats, when big research is done, and in fact, I even read, I found a report as well. Where did I find it? I thought as well that the young’un’s, the millennials weren't using email, but that's far from true. Who was it? There was somebody called Adestra did a report in 2018 that, 70% of teenagers still use email.
So, my daughter still uses email, she has a rubbish email management system, but she still uses it. And so it's still part of the communication mix.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah, and sorry, just to interrupt you there. David Holland says ... David Holland, for those of you who don't know him, is a super Infusion Soft specialist, a really good guy to know, so connect with David if you need any kind of Infusion Soft help. But he says email is the transactional platform most people and businesses, and it's true. I think of what platform do I buy off, and it's email. I might find out about things through a different platform, but typically it's an email that I'm buying from.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, you can't buy anything online without having an account associated with an email address. So even if you might click on an App on your phone, or you swipe your phone, the back is always behind an email address that you have confirmed that you are a real person.
So, email is never, I don't believe will ever die, in that sense, but what has changed dramatically in the last five or seven years is that people are, and in fact again, there was another report I found, that on average people get 88 emails a day, but they only send 34. So they're getting two and a half times more email than they send.
Suzanne Dibble: Only 88? I think I get about 5,000.
Karen Skidmore: Well that's an average, that's average.
Yeah, I know, exactly, when I look at my inbox, especially on the promotions tab, it's like [inaudible 00:20:45] when it comes in. Obviously, it depends on how many email things that you subscribe to, doesn't it? And what you get dumped on as well.
ut you think of the sheer volume, and actually, I think it's a lot more cluttered, and it's a lot trashier. And to see through that noise is incredibly challenging. So, it's actually, for people that want to give up on email marketing, I say great because it means that I make it easier for us who aren't giving up on it to get heard.
So, please don't. With all of these things, it's never a quick and easy cheapest way of marketing your business. Most of the stuff now, we have to put strategic thought into it, we've got to put some time and planning. We have to put stuff in to get stuff out. So, it is there. It's here to stay, and GDPR is forcing us to make sure that we are really recognizing the importance of these email addresses, and we're protecting them, and we're looking after them, and nurturing them, so we can build a lifelong relationship with these people.
Suzanne Dibble: Mm-hmm (affirmative), absolutely.
So, obviously the whole thrust of this interview is about re-engagement, why is it, and it's a simple question, but I think it's important for people to understand how key this is, why is the engagement of people on your email list so important?
Karen Skidmore: Yeah. Now, I'm going to come at this as a very simple. My philosophy is to make marketing and business as simple as possible. So, when we look at it, it's that when you send out an email ... So somebody signs up to your list, your email is coming out even from Infusion Soft, or Mail Chimp, or Aweber, or whatever email marketing platform you use. So, whenever emails come out of these systems, they go to email servers which is Gmail, AOL, Apple Mail. So, it translates over. So, any emails that come from the big email marketing systems already are kind of ring-fenced by the Gmail's of this world, and all the rest of them, as that's an email that's sending promotional marketing stuff.
So you've already got that going on. And so when the email lands in someone's inbox, it is not necessarily going to get as high priority by Google or Apple, or AOL, or Hotmail, or whatever platform you use, as an individual email that comes through by one person. Okay?
Suzanne Dibble: I.e. it's going to find its way into your spam box.
Karen Skidmore: Yes, so what happens is, generally speaking, the email will arrive to begin with, okay? Because it's an email that's been sent once. Now, what happens is that if you send up ... for example, if someone signs up to your list, and they are on a 14-day autoresponder sequence, so they get an email once a day for 14 days. The first email will generally get through. Now, if that person does not open or reply to the email, and those are the two things the email servers watch. There are not people that actually, it's all done by computer algorithms. But if the email is not opened, or it's not replied to, what happens is it starts shunting down the priority list, and it's why, if you're a Gmail user, for example, you already know you've got an inbox, you've got a social tab and a promotions tab. That's how it goes, isn't it?
And your emails will start to go to the promotions tab, so it comes out of the priority box into promotions. And then if it hangs out in the promotions box for those 14 days and it just gets deleted before even being opened, it then starts getting shunted down to the spam folder. And once it goes into the spam folder, that's it, and there's every chance that actually it doesn't even make it there in the end, it's blocking it before it even gets to your spam folder.
And this is why, when you look at your list, and you look at your list hygiene as it's called, how clean is your list, there's a lot of people that might get soft bounce emails. So if you actually email them personally, the email will get through, but if it tries to go through your email marketing system, it's being blocked, because that person's not engaged with that email.
So, when that happens, and you get more and more people like that on your list, it actually affects the deliverability of your whole list. So, say, for example, you've got 1,000 people on your email list, and 600 of those people are unengaged, the 400 people on your list are less likely to get your email because those 600 people are dragging down your deliverability rates.
So, people who been building lists over a long period of time, you might have been list building for four, five, ten years for example, and you've got a whole load of old email addresses that are hard bouncing, that aren't even working anymore. Soft bouncing and you're wondering why your deliverability rate has sunk from 35% down to 10%, that is why.
And it's hurting your business because you're leaving ... It's like going out, in fact, I've just written a big report about this, which I was going to let people know about. It's like having your best party invitation, and you're out there on your front street and your front door going "Yeah, yeah I've got a great party back here." And people are joining your list and coming into your party, but you're staying at the front door trying to bring all the new people in. Everyone in the party is going, where's my drink, you're not giving me any nibbles. God, this is a crap party. And they're disappearing out of the back door.
But, the problem is, is they're still being counted as a party guest, and the party's getting worse, and worse, and worse. And yet you're still out the front trying to build your list, going well why is my business not growing?
So this is why it's really important from a business profitability point of view if you're spending time getting people onto your list, paying for Facebook Ads for goodness sake, and you're letting everyone out of the back door you're just dropping water down the drain.
Suzanne Dibble: I have so been guilty of that, I have totally been there. So been there. And the problem is I absolutely know the theory and what I should be doing, and then, business and life just get in the way, and you've dumped a whole load of cash on a Facebook Ads campaign. And then, you know, you were planning on writing this amazing sequence, and this automated webinar, and blah, blah, blah, and it never happened. And all that money was wasted, and all those poor people didn't get any valuable information.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, and it feels so much easier, because that's the kind of ... Where people feel they need to go. "Oh, I've got to program, so I need to go and get more people." And I hear that so many times, "I need to go and get more clients." But what they're forgetting, even if you've only got a few hundred people on your list, you've really paid to get them onto your list, and it's those people. And in my experience, it can take anything from 6 to 18 months for some people to step forward and buy anything from me.
They look for months and months and months and months, sometimes years, before they exactly come forward and say, "I've loved your stuff Karen, I've been getting your emails for four years, and I'd like a call with you."
And that, for me is such a ... It feels like God it's taken that long to convert somebody. But all I'm doing is my job is sending out good stuff, and writing emails that make them smile and engage with them, and they hang around until they're ready. So yeah, so just be aware, if you've got a great party invitation and you're getting people in through the front door, check your back door, because they're all buggering off at the back there.
Suzanne Dibble: Awesome. So, I think I'll ask you that later because you're probably going to come on to it, but that bit about, you know, you've really got that one opportunity in that first email to get them to do something.
Karen Skidmore: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Suzanne Dibble: What we should be thinking about in terms of the content of that first email. But I think we'll come on to that later, when we talk about what kind of re-engagement sequences we can do.
So, why is it important to, before the 25th of May, put some thought into this, rather than just emailing out and saying there's some new legislation coming up, I need your consent. Why is it a good idea to actually do a re-engagement campaign before the 25th of May, and before you send that email?
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, I think this is it, people have got to, first of all, be really honest about how they've been treating their list. So, I'm sure all of us have had the odd email come through from somebody saying "Oh, I've now got to be GDPR compliant, click this link." And what you've got to remember is that if you've not been sending out engaging emails, and actually giving them value, first of all, they might not even know who you are. So, if they go who is this person? And they actually sometimes can spark how dare you. How did you get my email address? And actually, you signed up for something months ago.
Suzanne Dibble: I love writing emails back, telling them exactly what they signed up for.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, but if they've not been getting any emails from you, it's actually, it's the perception. You know, perception is the reality. If they feel that you've stolen their email address from somewhere, and they don't remember signing up for something six, nine months ago, because frankly how do you remember all of that stuff. And they suddenly get this email out of the blue to say, "Hey, so I can send you some emails about me, click this link." If they don't know you, they're going to ignore you, or they're going to click spam.
If they do know you, but all they've been getting is buy me, buy me, buy me, buy me promo stuff. Oh, she's launching another program. Oh, she's got something else she's buying. Or he's doing this. Again, they're going to go thanks, but do you know what, all I've been sold to for the last six months is this. Thanks, I won't bother.
So you've got to remember that if you haven't got people engaged with you already, why would they want to continue getting emails if they're not, getting value and they don't want to get sold to all the time.
So, it's common sense, don't just knee-jerk this and go I've got to be GDPR compliant, where that's email that's in Suzanne's pack? Oh, I'll download it. Right, fill in the gaps, I'll send it out, yay, I'm GDPR compliant. Because what will happen is either you'll get a whole load of people unsubscribing anyway, or you'll start May 25th with maybe 5% of your list who have said yes, and you're going oh, I'm ground zero again.
So, yeah, do some warming up before you get to this deadline of May the 25th. We've still got plenty of time to do that.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah, absolutely. So, what type of campaigns do you think that it would be a good idea to use to re-engage with your, let's call them people, the people you're loving on your list.
Karen Skidmore: People, yes. Let's not call them emails anymore, they are human beings, hopefully, they won't be robots that have just gone onto your list, they will actually be people that have gone on there and signed up.
So look, there's a ton of things that you can do, and in fact, actually I was just going to do a little checklist for people who were interested, just to give them. But I actually ended up writing almost 5,000 words. I got so embroiled in this on Tuesday with this coming up, and I was like ... This was obviously something I needed to get out there in front of people.
But there's plenty of re-engagement campaigns you can do. For of you that go I've got to be taking lots of notes here, if you want to get a copy of the five re-engagement campaigns that I'm going to talk about, I've got something that you can sign up for, and you can have them all, and it's all there written out.
Suzanne Dibble: Awesome.
Karen Skidmore: So, if that helps people just to go I'll just relax, just listen, and then you can get whatever it is. I've got a 20-page report here with it all written out and spaced out. But there's a number of them, and I think it depends on what kind of businesses we're talking about. And you're all going to be at different stages, what content you've got, have you just started?
And I think the first one, and this is one that you should be doing Suzanne because this is perfect for you, is what I call the nothing but value re-engagement campaign.
Suzanne Dibble: I'll make a note. Oh no, I don't need to, because I'll just get your hand out.
Karen Skidmore: In fact, I sent it to you this morning actually.
Suzanne Dibble: Oh did you?
Karen Skidmore: Yes.
Suzanne Dibble: Oh, thank you very much.
Karen Skidmore: It's all there. But it's called nothing but value, and actually, it's very simple, of going back to your blog, or your vlogs, or your Facebook posts, or wherever you've created content, and it is as simple as planning out about three weeks’ worth. Now, there's no absolutely ... I don't want this to feel prescriptive, I know there's a lot of people who go give me a template that I can just fill in the blanks. And I want to know if I send it out on a Tuesday, should I do it 10 O’clock or 12:30?
No, just think about doing an email twice a week for three weeks, where you are doing nothing but giving them some really great content. So, if you're just starting out, this might be too much work for you. But if you've been going for six months plus, and you've got half a dozen good blog articles that you can wrap up into a bit of a mini-series if you like. And just send them an email on a Tuesday and a Friday, every week for three weeks. And give people an opportunity to open their emails, to click through, and read the blog, watch the video. And just give them some value about what it is that you can do for them, before asking for that opt-in again.
So, most of you here can do this. I'm sure you can. It's a fairly simple one to do.
Suzanne Dibble: It is. But is there any ... you know what you were saying about, so if you've just been selling or whatever, or you just haven't sent emails for ages. Well actually no, maybe people just haven't been opening them for whatever reason, and you're now in their spam folder. What can we do about that? If that is our re-engagement campaign and it's ...
Karen Skidmore: Well, if you're in the spam folder already, unfortunately, there isn't much unless that person finds that email and replies back to it. If you are down there because what's happened is it's already got that message that it's a crappy email you're sending out.
Suzanne Dibble: So, could you look at doing something on another platform, like maybe some re-targeting Facebook Ads, to your email list, with something that's super high value, that they're going to sign up for? And how big letters on the sign-up box saying if you don't receive this within a few hours, check your spam box. And then, when they go into it, they not only download it but maybe you say, "Reply to me for X," which is even more valuable. So you've then got a download and a reply out of that email. Is that possible?
Karen Skidmore: Yes. Now, that, I think is a genius idea. The problem with that is that I think the majority of people, that is just too much for them to actually implement. And it'd be interesting to see who's here. For me, it's about creating something so simple that you can actually implement this and get this done, what you'll decide there is almost like in advanced, and you'll go for somebody who might have an email list of say 7 to10,000 people and they know actually, crikey, if I don't do something about this. And they space out, and they take literally a month to plan this and make sure it all goes through.
It sounds very easy to say well we just put a Facebook Ad, but you know and I know that to get a Facebook Ad and know who you're targeting, and how much money you need to spend to get the right people, it just adds that level of sophistication to it, doesn't it?
So I would say totally if you know that your list is pretty out of whack, and then yes, you may need to go right, I need to put a stop to all my promotions or marketing, and let's really think about doing this for the next two months. But for the majority of small business owners, let's make this as simple as possible, that if you can just start off, and do that for, for example, for three weeks, at least you'll know at the end of three weeks how engaged your database is.
And you'll know how engaged they are by the clicks. It still amazes me how few people recognize that they can look at how many people clicked through on the links, and then they've got a considered list of well there's my active subscribers.
Suzanne Dibble: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Karen Skidmore: It doesn't have to be anything more complicated than that.
Suzanne Dibble: I guess if people don't want to get into the realms of Facebook Ads, then they could just be sharing their blogs on social media, on LinkedIn, or whatever. And then you've got the call to action in the blog, as well as in the email. So there's a click here to get your hugely valuable freebie from the blog. And then there's that same thing, check your spam folder, and then you've got that really compelling call to action.
Karen Skidmore: Although what comes to mind is that actually, for me, I'm not sure I'd want to have something going out saying check your spam folder, because it insinuates that my stuff's going in their spam folder.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah.
Karen Skidmore: Do you know what I mean? That's just what I suddenly realized, I'm thinking ... I think you need to separate the two, I think you need to do campaigns on your database, but what you're talking about is actually going out there and building a fresh list again. And it's not an either/or thing, it's a when are you going to do what, when? Does that make sense?
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah. I often have, on my thank you pages, go and check your spam folder, because I find that with Infusion Soft even sending to new, completely new people, it still ends up in their spam folders. So, for example, my receipts, my invoices for all of my online products, I can guarantee that it will end up in people's spam folders, and that's the first thing that people are getting from me.
So I actually always say on most of ... Well, I say always, 90% of the time I will say on my thank you pages, "If you don't receive whatever, please go and check your spam folder." So I personally don't have an issue with it, maybe it's an individual thing.
Karen Skidmore: It was just an interesting concept of what words to use. But I think this is it, it's like you've got to try something, and being brave enough to just get on and do something, rather than sit there and just send out that email. Because of course in your GDPR pack, you've got that brilliant email to send out to people, and you know that you are compliant. And it's thinking before I do that, why can't you send out some good stuff before you send out that email?
So yeah, so if you want to add another layer on, by all means, start thinking about what you can do on your social media platforms because obviously, it doesn't have to be about Facebook. You might be on LinkedIn, it might be that your clients hang out on Instagram. Mention what you're doing in social media, but the important thing about it is that is not a selling campaign. Do not be tempted to start bolting out, "By the way, I've got an event next week." Or, "I've got a special offer here." It is just about the value.
I think people can get caught up with I've got to make sure I'm selling something at the same time if they're going to open up an email. Be patient, bide your time, focus on the value first, get the consent again, and then you can start wining and dining and going on a second date and third date.
Suzanne Dibble: Yes, exactly.
Karen Skidmore: Does that make sense?
Suzanne Dibble: Awesome, yeah.
So that's number one campaign.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, so that's the one.
Suzanne Dibble: What's another example? Is that probably the main one that people who are in the expert space should be thinking about?
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, because I think it's one of the easiest ones to do without having to create fresh stuff. I'm all for recycling, repurposing, use what you've got already. Even if it's a year old for goodness sake, because the people that you're sending it to, they don't expect fresh stuff. You don't need to go and write six new articles, use what you've done already. It's there, it's reusable and recyclable.
Suzanne Dibble: Unless there's a new law that's come into force, in which case you can't send out your old posts about data protection, for example.
Karen Skidmore: Well yes, you personally might be a little bit restricted on that. But, you know, there's some good stuff that you've got there, that's fairly evergreen.
Suzanne Dibble: Good, so that's for us experts in the house. How about, what if you're more product based? Have you got anything that would cover people that are wanting to re-engage who are selling products?
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, in fact actually it takes me very nicely onto number two, which actually would suit really well for people with products. Is what I would call a quick question survey. And I think all of us here, including me, do not do enough surveys. Now, I don't think you'll get ... Well, it depends what your list is all about, but actually, again, this is not about selling, but actually going out and asking a question of what's the one thing that you have about the problem. In fact, what were the questions I've written down here? I'm trying to say it off the thing, but they're so simple.
Here we go, what was the biggest challenge in your, whatever it is, problem, right now? What is it that I can help you with right now? If it's a product based ... Oh, give me an example of someone with a product in the group here.
Suzanne Dibble: Dog Shampoo.
Karen Skidmore: Do you know what, I was wondering what you were going to say then. Dog shampoo!
Suzanne Dibble: Only because I got sent some recently from a lovely lady, Debbie, in my group. I was talking about my hands being all cracked because of washing my hands because of my dog, and she sent me some lovely hand balm, and about four bottles of really lovely dog shampoo. So there you go. So maybe you've got a problem with, I don't know, maybe you've got a dog that's got really bad dandruff, and you've got a specialist dog shampoo.
Karen Skidmore: There you go. So I think that's a really good example, so sending out an email asking your list, the people on your list, about what is the problem that you have about washing your dog? And actually just having something, that might not be the most earth-shattering question to ask, but it doesn't need to be too clever, but it needs to be related around what it is that you're selling, and keep it really simple.
You can do this in two ways, you can do it as a simple open question, or you can do it as an A, B, or C. One will work better than the other, you won't really know. You need to try these out. But the important thing about this one is that you're not asking them to click to an online survey, the purpose of this one is to reply back to the email with the answer.
Now, what's good about that one obviously is that the thing that Gmail's, and Hotmail's, and AOL's look for reply to. So, they do look at the clicks, but they're not so bothered about that, it's the open rates and the reply to. So, by asking a quick question like this, and all they want to do is just reply back to the email. It's sending out that very strong message to say ooh, this is a personal email, I'm replying to it.
So can you see the really simple process? Now, I do this, anybody who's been on my list will quite often see me ask questions, and all I want to do, particularly if I'm doing a webinar, I will always ask a quick question, "What do you want to know about what I'm teaching tomorrow?" Because on the one hand it genuinely helps me answer the right questions, and it gives me some really gold information about what are the problems that are happening. But there's also an email marketing thing going on there, because I know if they can reply back to that email, it's giving a really strong message back to their email server that they like me enough to reply to me.
So, this asking people to reply, you will not get as many people replying as you will do a click, that's absolutely I'm sure of it. But the people who do reply are going to suddenly go... whizz right back up again. And you may have noticed this yourself, if you've been on someone's email list and reply to an email, all of a sudden their emails start coming back into your priority, primary inbox. That can happen very quickly.
So, asking a quick question like that, and those emails are really simple. Again, it doesn't need a lot of writing, it's a really quick introduction and a dog shampoo, you can really ... Someone's selling a dog shampoo and they've got that, you know what the problems are. Really. But you're just getting people to say yeah, that's the problem I have.
Suzanne Dibble: And people love to give their opinions as well, don't they? So if you ask for people's opinions, oh my goodness, if they actually get to see the email, then the chances are they'll reply, because people love to give a good opinion.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, and I think you can generally put it like "I'm thinking about doing this, and I really need your help. I would appreciate your input. I'm putting together a focus group." Just relate it to what you're doing, but yeah, people just love putting their tuppence in, don't they?
Suzanne Dibble: Mm-hmm (affirmative), they do.
Karen Skidmore: So it's a great opportunity. But it's the replying back to that email which is what creates the power to trigger that email back into the engagement. And then obviously following it through with the GDPR consent, they'll hopefully have remembered that they've replied back to that email, and go "Oh yeah, yeah, they're the good dog shampoo company. They were asking my opinion, of course, I want to be on their list."
Suzanne Dibble: Brilliant. Okay, awesome. So that's two of them. How many have you got time to go through?
Karen Skidmore: Well if I go through the other three quite quickly, and as I say, you can get all of this in the report, all broken down. But the third one, this is for those of you who've got a lead opt-in already, is actually, and I've seen a lot of people do this already. So if you've got a good party invitation to get people onto your list, ask them to re opt-in.
In fact, David Holland, he probably wouldn't know that he sent it to me; because it's all in automated campaigns, did a really good one or would you like a copy of the Infusion Soft guide to marketing ... I can't remember what it was now. And I went on, of course. I haven't opened it or read it, sorry David, but of course, I went through and clicked through to the page and then put my name and email address in, and re-opted in.
So, that's a really ... What you're doing there is you're getting people to open the email, there's something of value. They click through, they put their name and email address again, and there's no reason why you couldn't tie that into having that tick box and GDPR compliance at that time.
So that makes it a really efficient way of getting people, but I'd probably do that more with your more engaged list if you see what I mean, I wouldn't do that with the really dead and buried ones just yet. But, again, that's something to try. If you don't get anywhere with the articles, just send them out to the thing that they signed up for in the very first place. A lot of people might not remember that they've got it already.
Suzanne Dibble: Okay, that's good. So you're saying just send them what they signed up for already. Okay, cool.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, because you think about how many things we sign up for, where did it go? It just disappeared off. So you don't have to come up with anything new, the whole point of this is use what you've got already. Don't think I've got to come up with a new lead magnet, use what you've got already. It's just another way of engaging people.
Suzanne Dibble: And even if you've got a few good ones, I guess the rationale of sending them the one they've already opted-in for is you know that they're really, really interested in that because they've already opted-in for it once.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, exactly.
Suzanne Dibble: And like you said, the chances are people; they opt-in and don't ever actually get around to reading it or doing anything with it. So actually, you know, even if they remember signing up for it, it'll be a good reminder for them to re-visit it, or to actually do something with it.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, yeah.
Suzanne Dibble: Okay, I like that idea, that's good.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah. There's another one that I see really fun brands do. So the dog shampoo company could do this one, it's more of a humor one, and I'm sure we've seen these ones. I think this is the toughest one to do for a lot of people because humor doesn’t badly go down, really badly. But if you've got a really fun business where it's, you know, the dog shampoo you could have, for example, put together a playlist of sad songs, oh we've missed you. It doesn't even have to be your content, if it's a publicly available video that you can embed onto a webpage on your website, you can make a bit of fun.
The psychological reason behind that is if you can make people smile and laugh, they are more likely to feel connected with your brand. So there is a seriousness to humor, and why humor is used in marketing, but be aware that it doesn't work with every single brand. So, that's a really good one to do ...
Suzanne Dibble: I'm totally going to do that for GDPR. Like a playlist of chill out songs, or something like that, songs to calm people down about GDPR. Great idea.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, and it is, it's about if you can make people smile, maybe not laugh out loud, but make people smile, we are connected. That's what brings the human emotion into marketing. And people are very unlikely to then click the spam button if they've smiled and found it funny, yes? So that's a fun one to do.
And the last one is what I call the Ronseal, which is it does exactly what it says on the tin. So, if you run a fairly straight-laced business and you are a little bit more, not to say gray-suited, but you don't have a whole load of articles, is actually just send out a well-informed email, and keep it really simple. And to say this is what's coming your way, click here to let us know that you still want to hear from us.
Suzanne Dibble: So something fairly similar to what I said in my email really, there wasn't much marketing spin on it at all. It was just a here's what's coming up, click here, type thing.
Karen Skidmore: Yes, exactly, you're reminding people that this is happening and what value that you are promising that they're going to get, and obviously following through on that promise.
So, if you don't want to do anything funny, or it's just too much, just keep it, I call it Ronseal, and just do it. Don't sit there and then panic that you've got to send out this one email, and if people don't click the link to that one email you can never send anything to them again. That's not the case at all.
Suzanne Dibble: Thank you for that, that's awesome. But what do you think about, say you've sent out your email ... So you've done your value, maybe you've put a bit of humor in there, maybe you've mixed a few of your suggested campaigns up. And then you go for the crunch email of, you know, under GDPR you need to click here to consent. And they don't do it. What's your recommendation for that?
Do you think, I've got three weeks left before GDPR comes in, I'll send them another email, and then another reminder. What's your view on that?
Karen Skidmore: I think you've got to look at this pragmatically. There are some people that still love you, but don't want to get your emails. Unsubscribers are good for your list. I have seen people be on my list, come off my list, come back on my list, go back. They just yo-yo off and on. Don't take it personally, you've got to walk away at some point. It's like dating, if you really fancy somebody and you keep hounding them and keep stalking them, they're going to report you.
So, you know, do what you do, and then move on. It's about follow up, but anything, you decide what's your cut off point. But never become desperate, as soon as you start to get desperate you get too attached to the outcome, and you start getting stressed and anxious about it.
If you can't people to re-engage with you, you can't get people to opt-in, that's fine. Start a fresh, give yourself a real kick up the butt, so that when you do go out and list build, you darn well look after them when they do sign up. Make it a reality check for you.
So, business is not over, just take it as a wake-up call that you have to change the way that you're doing your email marketing.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, let's finish off with opt-in checkboxes. How can people here simplify the number of lists that they need to be asking for consent for? So this takes us back to the point that I raised at the start, about the granularity of consent, and breaking down your processing, and ideally having tick boxes for each different type of processing.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah. I've seen this coming up quite a bit, and in fact, there were a few posts I wanted to jump in, I'll wait until the Facebook live and then I can see. Because I can see people taking your very strong legal advice and what is true and right, to have that granular consent. But when they relate it to their business, I can just imagine the look of horror on their faces when they realize I've got to have a checkbox for my newsletter, a checkbox for my offer, a checkbox for this.
Now, I think we've got to be sensible about this, and I'm obviously not coming at this from a legal point of view, and this is nothing to do about sensitive data, this is about email address marketing data. I think you've got to think about what you're doing in your business. So for me, what I am doing, and what I have decided, which is the right thing for me, is that I only send out one email list. I do not have a newsletter, and I do not have emails that I send out promoting my products and services and events.
They are one of the same. So, those of you who have got stuck in a bit of rut and are going, oh I send out a monthly newsletter, and then I could be promoting in between, they're two different lists. I say bring it together, you shouldn't ... Good email marketing is about selling and giving value at the same time. So all your emails need to sell, and all your emails need to engage. So when you come at it from that point-of-view, if you can do it, your emails is one list.
Now, obviously, there's going to be some businesses here that do have different marketplaces. So, Suzanne's point of if you get someone signing up for dog shampoo, let's use that as an example, and then suddenly you've got a sideline of dog biscuits, is that all one of the same? Probably, because it's doggy market. But if you suddenly bring in, I don't know,
Suzanne Dibble: Speedboats.
Karen Skidmore: Speedboats, or nappy business, then it's a completely different product. So that is obviously a different list. So, be sensible about your lists, and I think, for me, and for a lot of people that I speak to, creative entrepreneurs, people selling their expertise, they've only got one list. You do not have 15 different lists.
So, if you can do one tick box, do it, okay? Don't split your newsletters out with your sales promotions, because they should be one of the same things. That's what people are signing up for.
So that's my take on it, I know it's a marketers interpretation. But be aware that, I think a lot of people I've seen asking questions is that they don't need to be separating newsletters from sales and promotions. For me, it's the same thing if you are selling the same thing to the same people.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah. I mean I would have a tick box that talks about email newsletters that might contain details of our offers and promotions. It is important to be as transparent as possible about that.
Karen Skidmore: Yes, yeah.
Suzanne Dibble: But any good email newsletter should, occasionally, if not all the time, have some detail about what's going on with your business. And if you're running a great promotion, then why wouldn't your faithful email subscribers want to be the first to know about that? So I think absolutely have one tick box, but make clear what you're actually going to be doing with fact.
Karen Skidmore: In fact, in anybody signs up for the report I've got, you'll see my new GDPR compliant tick box. And I think what I've put on it is that tick this box if you'd like; helpful, entertaining, emails that you tell you about my products and programs. Or something, I can't remember the exact phraseology. But it frames it that it's a value, but they are still promotional emails. So it covers it together in one thing, but yeah, you're right, you wouldn't want to say sign up for my newsletter and then promote stuff. You've got to have that tied in together.
So yeah, so be sensible guys, and as Suzanne said right at the beginning, you're not going to have the GDPR police person knock on your day on May the 26th going "Excuse me, you haven't got enough tick boxes on your consent form there." Let's be sensible about it, and really think about what we're selling. And if you absolutely can put it under one tick box, do it under one tick box. But make sure it's clearly put in there, from a creative writing point of view, that you're not hoodwinking, and you're not deliberately lying.
It comes back to ethical and moral businesses.
So it is a reasonably lengthy document, but it's quite straight-forward if you spend the time. I mean, let's face it, no-one's going to read it anyway, okay? No one's going to read it, but we have to have it, because if you get investigated you can point to that, and you know, tick that box.
Karen Skidmore: I've got mine, I've still got to put it on my website, but I've got it, I've got it. So thank you very much, Suzanne.
Suzanne Dibble: Although saying that, I'm joking about ticking that box, but actually, and in fact let me see if I've got the statement here from the information commissioner. The whole thing about GDPR is that it's not supposed to be a legislative box-ticking exercise. Elizabeth Denham said, "This is about more than a legislative box- ticking. Accountability is at the center of all of this, of getting it right today, getting right in May 2018, and getting it right beyond that." And it's the shift to accountability, and having a real internal cultural shift about how we treat, as Karen says, people, at the end of the day.
It's not bits of personal data, it's those people that can be identified from those bits of personal data. And there has to be that culture shift, and that understanding of how valuable data is. And putting in policies and procedures and staff training if you've got staff training, putting all of that good stuff into place so that data gets the protection that it deserves.
Okay, awesome. So, let's have a look if we've got any questions, Karen. Is that pretty much all that we were going to say about, yeah?
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, I can't believe it's One O’clock. Oh my goodness me, that's been a marathon. So thank you for anybody who's stayed for the whole session so far, I hadn't realized we'd been talking so long.
Suzanne Dibble: I know, doesn't time fly when you're having fun?
Karen Skidmore: I know, and I've got a topic I want to talk about.
Suzanne Dibble: I'm just looking through some of these questions. Clearly, the most important questions here is when is it going up in price, my GDPR pack? So, it's going up on the 30th of March, so make sure you grab it before that. I'm sure we'll be doing lots of Facebook Ad and things in the group about when will be going up, to give all a chance to buy it at the £97.
Look in the pinned post for the link to the checklist, and for the link ... it's the same link actually, to watch the two-hour training, and to buy the pack. But it's all in the pinned post, so go check the pinned post out.
Karen, where can people find your re-engagement campaign ideas that you've just been talking to us about?
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, we'll share the link in the group, but if you go to karenskidmore.com/re-engage, the re-engage after karenskidmore.com, it's there and you can just...
Suzanne Dibble: No hyphen in reengage?
Karen Skidmore: No hyphen, yeah.
Suzanne Dibble: Just straight through.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, just re-engage.
Suzanne Dibble: Awesome. Okay, I'm going to scroll through these questions, but if you've got any more questions, pop them in the chat box now and we'll have 10 minutes of questions. Okay, I think Emily got her question answered there about Mail Chimp. And my iPad isn't letting me scroll up, which isn't particularly helpful.
Okay, if you've got a question that hasn't been answered, just pop it in the chat box now.
Karen Skidmore: I can scroll down.
Suzanne Dibble: Can you see many?
Karen Skidmore: Oh yes, there are some questions about May. It's only on a small screen, but, "We have a business relating to labeling school uniform. I'm going to do a survey, what's the biggest problem with school uniform, A) Price, B) Labeling, C) what else should I add? Anybody ...
See, that's a great idea for doing a Q&A, so those three suggestions, A, B, and C. And get somebody to reply back to you, Francesca, that sounds like a good idea. Go for it!
Nicola asks, "So, if they don't open at all they're unsubscribers or need to be removed?" Yeah, and in fact actually this is a really important thing is I think there's going to be some of you that will want to just delete people off your list before you even send out the re-engagement campaigns. Because if you can go through and get rid of all your soft bounces, people that may have signed up for your list four years ago and haven't opened up an email in the whole of that time, there's every chance you'll never get them re-engaged.
So, all of your email marketing systems, whether it's Mail Chimp, Infusion Soft, will have something in your settings that you can go and search for people that have not opened up an email in six months, nine months, twelve months. And just get rid of them. I did a big clear out back in January and took about 600 people off my list.
And my open rate went from 24% straight up to 31% within about six weeks, so it makes a real difference getting rid of these people.
So yeah, so do a brutal clean-up job, declutter, get rid of all the crap, the email addresses that are obviously broken.
Suzanne Dibble: Hang on Karen, hang on Karen, they're people, not crap.
Karen Skidmore: Sorry! They are, sorry. But all the broken emails, the emails that don't work, and it's just clogging up your system. Get rid of them, and then start from there.
So yeah, so if they don't open at all Nicola, it's like I said earlier, so what? There are other people out there.
Suzanne Dibble: There's plenty more fish in the sea.
Karen Skidmore: There is, there is. There are loads more people to start a relationship with, we're getting into dating here.
Suzanne Dibble: So, Louise says, "Question from me, why are we not seeing the big brands doing re-engagement campaigns yet? I'm thinking Sainsbury's, [inaudible 01:05:52], just some of the marketing lists I'm on, I haven't had any GDPR emails from them. Are they waiting for May the 25th?"
No, I mean I have seen, Barry Dunlop shared one that BMW did in the group, which I think marketing-wise was good, I'm not sure about compliance side out it. But I suspect the reason that brands are waiting is because, to be honest, the guidance just isn't clear yet. We're still waiting, the ICO is doing a code of practice on direct marketing and email marketing, and we haven't seen a draft yet. So that's probably why is that people are waiting for that.
Karen Skidmore: And don't forget these guys, the big brands have expensive lawyers, or they've got their own legal department, and they might even, rightly or wrongly, be taking the risk of actually going well actually let's wait and see what happens. We're not going to do this and lose 40,000 email addresses, let's wait until we get a fine, because they can afford to take ... Unfortunately, that's how some of the bigger brands look at things, don't they?
But I haven't seen many of them come through either, it'll be interesting to see what they all do. We'll probably have them all on May the 25th, our inboxes will be like...
Suzanne Dibble: Yep, right, let's see. So, Karen says, "Would you advise that I stop my Facebook Ads until I have the checkbox in place? Otherwise, it's an expensive exercise to pay for people to come via Facebook Ads, only then to potentially lose them."
Karen Skidmore: It could be, how quickly is it going to take you to put a tick box on your ... That's the sort of thing you could sort out in a couple of hours. So I don't think you'd have to switch them off for very long. But yeah, absolutely, the sooner you can get your current opt-ins GDPR compliant, you don't have to ask them. So, that's why all of mine are now with the little GDPR compliant, and I've now set it up in my Infusion Soft account to say tick box under list hygiene, GDPR compliant.
So, the sooner you can do it. But, it shouldn't take you that long, a day?
Suzanne Dibble: And also, if you are providing them with value from the point they sign up to the point that you send out your email saying "Please can you opt back in because of GDPR," then the chances are they are going to see that email, and they are going to opt back in.
o, I think, yes as Karen says, let's make it GDPR complaint as soon as possible, but I think if you are properly engaging them from the point that they come on your list, then you're not going to lose 50% of them because, again, time is a thing, and if it's only going to be a couple of months and you're sending them good stuff, then you're not going to lose ... I wouldn't have thought you'll lose very many of those people that have come in through Facebook Ads.
Karen Skidmore: But I think actually, switching your Facebook Ads is that you're switching off your life force. It's giving yourself permission to stop breathing while you go and try to eat healthily. Don't switch it off just so you're not ... Just get your tick boxes in. That wasn't a very good analogy, but it's like don't strangle your leads coming into your business while you sort it out. Just sort it out. Does that make sense?
Karen Skidmore: Oh, if you can just give me another hour, and it will be there. Do you know what, it's one of those things that's like ... With the policy change, it's there, it was me just racing to get everything sorted for today.
Suzanne Dibble: I didn't get.
Karen Skidmore: I'm probably about 25 minutes away, Grace.
Suzanne Dibble: I didn't get that Karen, I actually thought that was a real question, as opposed to Grace having a go at you.
Karen Skidmore: No, she's not, there's a little smiley face.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah.
Suzanne Dibble: ... Or assume if they are soft bounces or no opens they don't want to hear from us again? I'm not taking it personally.
Karen Skidmore: No, exactly. I think you do need to give yourself a time, which is why it is a campaign, and don't see it as one email. And I've seen a few people do this, they go right, I'm sending you one email, if you don't click this link you'll never hear from me again. You've got to remember that people go on holiday. One day they have a really busy inbox and they just literally select all and delete. It is about the follow-up, so think of it as a three-part, six-part email campaign, and give people a chance to see you and engage with you.
But know that if you send too many you go into stalking territory, and that's when people get peed off.
So, it's about following up, and then drawing a line in the sand and going that's it, if they haven't done it by now, it's okay. I'm going to go and find some more people to go on my list.
Suzanne Dibble: And Caroline says, "Karen, your Clicks to Clients course is great for those wanting to start again from scratch."
Karen Skidmore: Thank you, Caroline. Do you know what's interesting is that this is what's happening, is that Clicks to Clients is being reborn as an email nurturing course. So I'm putting together something after Easter around loving your list. I want to update Clicks to Clients, and bring it into GDPR land, and make it around nurturing.
So you'll see it reborn again Caroline because I've actually squashed it down at the beginning of this year, not so sure it needs updating. So, yeah, it's being reborn again, so watch out for version two.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah, on that note, we all come on webinars, interviews like this, and think yes, I'm definitely going to do that re-engagement campaign, and then of course what happens is that life gets in the way. And what Karen is actually really great at is working with groups of people to ... She's a very good arse kicker is Karen, in the nicest possible way. And she really holds your hand and walks you through, and holds you to account in doing what you want to do, which is not lose half of the email list that you worked so hard over the last five years, or however long, to build up.
So, if you want to know more about that, then I suggest you sign up for Karen's thing, the more detail that she goes into on the campaigns, and I'll get Karen to remind you again where you can get that, and I'll also post it in my GDPR group. Get hold of that, and then I'm sure Karen will let you know more details about that opportunity to work with her, to actually do what you want to do, to put your re-engagement campaign in place, and not lose half or more of your email list.
So, go grab yet.
Karen Skidmore: Thank you.
Suzanne Dibble: So, thank you Farhin for putting that in the group.
Karen Skidmore: Ah, thank you, yes.
Suzanne Dibble: It's karenskidmore.com/reengage. Super, and I'll pop that link in the group as well.
Brilliant, I think that's all we've got time for. Oh, hang on, I've just seen one last one from Grace, serious question this time. "If doing the nothing but value campaign is it worth putting a re-opt-in link on each one, rather than as a single email after the campaign?"
Karen Skidmore: I think you've got to be transparent about what you're doing. I have seen people, just because you can someone to click a link through to an article and then cloak a re-opt-in behind it, technically you're able to do that. But for me, that's ethically not right because you're asking people to click through to an article, not to confirm their email.
So be careful about using technology to do clever stuff, and click-baiting people. And saying click this article because it's really good, and P.S. by the way, when you do it you're actually confirming your email.
So, if you're losing that transparency, you are definitely not being GDPR compliant there.
Suzanne Dibble: But you could do have a little P.S., couldn't you? Saying, "As changes to data protection laws are coming into effect, we need you to confirm that you'd like to receive the following. Please tick here." Or, if you've got Infusion Soft, "Please click on this link."
Karen Skidmore: Yes.
Suzanne Dibble: "If you want to stay on our mailing list about X, then click on this link." That would probably suffice.
Karen Skidmore: Yeah, and in fact Grace, that's not being cloaking. There's no reason you can't have a P.S., but remember, and this is the principles of email marketing that I teach, it's one call to action per email. You give people too many choices, and even two options, as soon as people have to make a decision, they often don't, and they don't do anything. So actually, you can try it, put it as a P.S., but don't include it in the main body of the email, because people, if they click a link to the article, they didn't know they had to click something else. What I would do is to do the articles and then follow it up with maybe three emails to say click here to confirm.
So, just don't try and get people to do too many things in one email, just because it's easy for you, because in my experience, people don't. They like to do one thing, one at a time, one email. That's when you get far better results, both from a sales point-of-view and for clicking consent.
It's just good practice for emails. I see people going, "Oh, by the way, do this," and "While you're reading the article, remember to do this." It's like whoa, I'm on my phone, so remember people read their emails on their phone on the small screen, too much information and they won't do it.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah, that's a good point.
All right, brilliant. Well, thanks so much everyone for being with us. Karen, many thanks to you for coming on and sharing your expertise with us.
Karen Skidmore: Thank you for having me.
Suzanne Dibble: And I'm very excited about how passionate you are about GDPR. I loved your ranty video by the way, about people passing on fake news, passing on fake news.
Karen Skidmore: #GDPR.
Suzanne Dibble: About GDPR. It's banned, it's banned.
Karen Skidmore: Yes.
Suzanne Dibble: So thank you so much, Karen. Please do go check out Karen's opt-in about getting your re-engagement campaigns. Please do get my free checklist, which is in the pinned post in my Facebook group, if you haven't already. And also, the pack is going up in price after the 30th ... How many days are in March?
Karen Skidmore: 30 days have September, April, June, and November. 31.
Suzanne Dibble: I think it's the 30th because that's the Friday. So that's why I chose the 30th.
Karen Skidmore: That's good Friday.
Suzanne Dibble: Oh is it? Oh, shit. Didn't realize that.
Karen Skidmore: Easter weekend is the 2nd of April.
Suzanne Dibble: Okay, it'll probably be the Thursday then, in that case. So Thursday the 29th. Thanks for that. You can tell I'm a marketer by my marketing calendar there, can't you?
I shall be sunning myself in Singapore, or not, I'll just be sweltering to death in Singapore.
Karen Skidmore: No you won't, you'll be doing your daily GDPR videos from Singapore?
Suzanne Dibble: I will be doing my daily GDPR videos from Singapore.
Karen Skidmore: Wow.
Suzanne Dibble: And then Thailand. So we'll be getting some exotic, rather than my office, we'll be getting some exotic backdrops on my GDPR videos. So I'm looking forward to that.
Karen Skidmore: You could be that true GDPR consultant sitting there, swigging a cocktail, with a lush background. Well, I have to know, all this money I'm making from GDPR. No.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah, I think on an hourly rate basis, it's probably less than my cleaner, to be honest, the number of hours I'm putting in. But, you know, in theory.
Karen Skidmore: This is my big yacht.
Suzanne Dibble: Yeah.
Yeah, so go grab my GDPR pack. And Karen's thing, and you'll be sorted basically. Good luck with all of your re-engagement campaigns, go check Karen's thing out because, like I say, losing half of your email list is not a happy prospect when you put so much time and effort into it. So do go check that out.
And let us know how you get on with it. And also, if you see any good examples of re-engagement campaigns from anybody else, feel free to share that in the group as well. And, yeah. So thank you, Karen.
Karen Skidmore: You're welcome.
Suzanne Dibble: It's been great chatting with you. Thanks, everyone for your questions, and for being here. We've got some more interviews coming up in the group, we've got a Mail Chimp expert coming on next week I think. So I'll post the details of that soon, and I'm on the case trying to interview people from places like Facebook, and Google, and Amazon. So, we'll see if that brings any fruit.
But we'll leave it there, thanks for joining us. Karen, have a wonderful day and speak to you soon.
Karen Skidmore: Yes, thank you.
Suzanne Dibble: So I'll see you all in the group.
Karen Skidmore: Okay, bye.
Suzanne Dibble: Bye.